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這篇主題已經被移動過,原來的討論板是 Marine Creature ◇海水生物飼養討論◇ - clownfish, 2004-03-15 08:25
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作者 去水 formula discussion
clownfish
大粒星
大粒星



文章: 2681
來自: Malaysia " Penang "
31 于 2004-03-11 13:31  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
     thank you big smile

魚友如發現去水去唔切,除換細泵或換條粗的去水喉外,另一辨法係升高個缸?
Yes big smile , so i think last time do happen some fish friend that setting as case 2 .水去唔切 , but change to case 1 水去 become OK big smile

from 138 theory V=(2gH)squra . when H increase >> velocity increase . so flow rate increase big smile

or another way. when 水去唔切 the water level will become higher .so some bio ball will dip inside water. but when the water level increase to some level will not increase any more. becoz the H increase make the water flow faster ,flow rate become balance at that level so water level maintain at that level big smile

.



喝了莫莫查查,唔再朦查查
岩礁園丁
冇離正經
冇離正經



文章: 6138
32 于 2004-03-11 13:55  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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上水泵只要唔係大到離普或細到離普, 結果都會取得上落水平衡, 分別只係水位高低.




專賣好野 包冇搵笨七
白熊
大星已沒落...
大星已沒落...



文章: 11304
來自: 荃灣東莞兩頭走
白熊: 你地唔好兩頭走啦...
嘉寶 浩軒
33 于 2004-03-11 14:27  觀看該用戶的個人資料  ICQ : 73518060  OICQ : 10070521  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
睇黎都好難計到個結果sad
丁丁所講既 factor 一定要加埋入去, 滴漏槽既水位高度會成為水壓, 直接加強落水速度; 落水喉如果插入水中, 落水一定快好多(唔知係"大氣壓力"還是係"虹吸作用"?)



退休老熊
Dickson
養珊瑚   造花園
養珊瑚 造花園



文章: 2753
來自: 香港東區
34 于 2004-03-11 14:40  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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仲有,多口問句;如果落水喉伸入沙缸水面下與在沙缸水面上有冇前別?若有,對以上定律有冇影��?
                          


wongkf





文章: 16
35 于 2004-03-11 14:54  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
It's true that your theory can be used to estimate the maximum flow rate of 去水 pipe, but substitue "D" = H is wrong.
You should substitue the height of "level A" in the formula, that is, the water level of the falling chamber of main tank.
The maximum water level allowed is equal to the height of the falling chamber of main tank. So assume your last chamber height is 1m and your pipe size is 0.025m. Then the maximum circulation flow rate allowed would be 7200 L/H. (Assume no friction loss, the falling pipe connect to sump tank without elbow)
So,
if circulation rate > >7200 L/H, the water level of the whole tank rise
If circulation rate = 7200 L/H, the falling chamber would full of water
if circulation rate < 7200, the falling chamber would not full.
Assume "level A" of falling chamber is 0.2m , then, the actual circulation rate is about 3500 L/H.
So, by measuring the height of "level A" and your pipe size, you can estimate your existing circulation flow rate.
But, for the above example, is it mean that we cannot buy a pump of larger than 7200L/H? The answer is no, we still can have pump larger than 7200L/H.
Why? It is because 7200L/H is only the specified flow rate of the pump. It mean that under no resistance, it can output 7200L/H.
But it's true that the total flow rate of the two outlets cannot be larger than 7200L/H.

Example xx)
To size the pump , you need full hydraulic calculation.
Q in L/min
P in bar (assume 1 bar = 10m)
Refer to the drawings
Assume you want to have about 2000 L/H, that is, about 1000L/H from nozzle 1, Q1 = 17 L/min
assume k factor of nozzle 1 = 100, (just assumption, usually check from table)
then, pressure at 1 (P1):
Q1 = 100 x sqrt (P1)
17 = 100 x sqrt(P1)
thus, P1 = 0.0289 bar
neglect length of 1-2, assume supply pipe = 20mm
equivalent lenght (EL) of 20 mm elbow = 0.3m (usually from table),
assume length of 1-3 = 1m
total EL from 1 to 3 = 1 + 0.3 = 1.3
k factor for 20mm pipe, k20 = 3.8 x 10^-5
then pressure loss across 1-4, P14 = k20 x EL x Q13 ^2,
(actual P = k x EL x Q^1.85, but I assume Q^2 for simplification)
P14 = 3.8 x 10 ^ -5 x 1.3 x 17^2
P14 = 0.014 bar
thus, P at 4, P4 = P1 + P14 = 0.0289 + 0.014 = 0.043 bar,
neglect the T joint at 4 for simplification (actually, you cannot neglect that)
Assume k factor for nozzle 1 = nozzle 3 = 100
Then Q3 = 100 x sqrt (0.043)
Q3 = 20.7 L/min

So, total flow rate from 5 to 4, Q5 = 17 + 20.7 = 37.7 L/min,
Assume length of 5 to 4 = 0.5,
then P loss from 5 to 4, P45 = k20 x Q5 ^ 2 x EL, (EL = 0.5 + 0.3 = 0.8)
thus, P45 = 3.8 x 10^ -5 x 37.7^2 x 0.8 = 0.043 bar
thus P5 = P4 + P45 = 0.043 + 0.043 = 0.086 bar
Assume length of 5-6 = 1.5 m
P6 = P5 + static pressure + loss
P6 = 0.086 + 0.15 (static) + 3.8 x 10^-5 x 1.5 x 37.7^2 ( system characteristic)
P6 = 0.317 bar
P6 = 3.17 m
So, at 6 , P = 3.17m, 2262 L/H
When you plot this point on the pump curve, if the point is within the pump curve, then your pump can provide more than the flow you need, if it is outside the pump curve, the pump cannot provide sufficient flow.

Actually, if you want to check the exact flow rate, you can substitue, different flow at the above system characteristic, e.g. when Q = 0, P6 = 0.236 bar,
when Q = 10, P6 = 0.241, then the system characteristic curve can be plot on the pump curve. The intersection point is the operating point.

Please note all the above k factors are not true but just to illustrate the calculation. You have to refer to some book for the true value.



wongkf





文章: 16
36 于 2004-03-11 15:08  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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Please note that level A is counted from the bottom of the main tank


clownfish
大粒星
大粒星



文章: 2681
來自: Malaysia " Penang "
37 于 2004-03-11 15:33  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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wongkf san
u r right. it should be using level A to calculate but hard to defind the A height . therefore i use the H to calculate.it is easy to measure and everybody can get it before tank setting , ofcoz this will come to less L/hr , but my target is to make simple guide to prevent pump too strong cause 落水 problems. so i prefer to estimate / calculate it smaller tongue

thank you very much. u realy detail explanation .
and i need some time to study your example.tongue
is good example . happy to get your support for this calculation.
i will try to make a simple guide line for 去水喉 diameter decision.
hope u can help to commend or do adjustment for that guide line big smile



喝了莫莫查查,唔再朦查查
wongkf





文章: 16
38 于 2004-03-11 15:55  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
Level A is difficult to determine but the maximum height allowed for level A is constant. It is simply the height of your tank or the height of your chamber.
Rising the level of main tank actually cannot increase the flow rate. The maximum flow rate depend on the depth of the main tank only.


clownfish
大粒星
大粒星



文章: 2681
來自: Malaysia " Penang "
39 于 2004-03-11 15:59  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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E....... question
A is count from " bottom of main tank to water level " ??

yeah notice 1 thing is haiven san have 去水 problems.
but i calculate the data he give Q = 5755 L/hr , but his pump is 4200L/hr .
should be OK . but.................. ???
can u help to calculate his tank flow rate.
is it we need to make some discount of the flow rate ??
or my make mistake calculation blushblush
thank you big smile



喝了莫莫查查,唔再朦查查
clownfish
大粒星
大粒星



文章: 2681
來自: Malaysia " Penang "
40 于 2004-03-11 16:21  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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wongkf san,
yes u r right. i can consider the max height as chamber height big smile
but i prefer more safe data. so i use minimum ( height 去水喉 ) to calculate it tongue becoz we also will place bio-ball inside the chamber. if i calculate the chamber height mean all the bio ball will be in the water tongue

wongkf san,
regarding your A level i have some confuse .
my thinking : it should consider the height "H " from sump to main. as below drawing.




喝了莫莫查查,唔再朦查查
wongkf





文章: 16
41 于 2004-03-11 17:18  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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Firstly, the drain pipe of Haiven have two 90 degree elbows before coming down to the sump, right? I read from his drawing of the previous post.
Secondly, the sump tank is open to atmosphere. It's not a pressurized tank.
Thirdly, your question is becoming more complicated. I have to go to Fish Street Now smile , may get back to you later after I think more.


clownfish
大粒星
大粒星



文章: 2681
來自: Malaysia " Penang "
42 于 2004-03-11 17:46  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
ok
thank you big smile

wish u get a nice fish / coral big smilebig smile



喝了莫莫查查,唔再朦查查
choinm





文章: 986
43 于 2004-03-11 19:54  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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等細佬今晚冲凉用支針筒、短膠喉同長膠喉試吓今日學嘅嘢。睇吓淨針筒去水、接短膠喉去水同接長膠喉去水,大家去水快慢一樣益或有快有慢。



wongkf





文章: 16
44 于 2004-03-11 20:05  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
我係fot, 魚街無咩想買的魚sad
用中文較易講,
你提出的托氐定理係假設一個大缸出一條細水喉, 缸的cross section area 大過條喉好多, 所以即使喉內水的velocity好大, 缸內水個velocity都 可當做0. total pressure = static pressure + velocity pressure. 所以缸底的total pressure = static pressure, 同water level 成正比
但當水進入喉之後, 喉頭同喉尾水velocity 根本一樣, . 托氐定理在這段喉不成立的, 所以這段喉的高度不能算在內.
我之前計算是假設下水喉直落, 無浸入水, 如果浸入水的影響就真係唔知點計, 不過我相信影響唔會太大.
haiven個泵揚程8.9m, 4200L/H 的話, 我相信個pump operating point 約在5m 及3000 L/H左右, 正確計算要用我之前所說的方法.
其實我覺得去水方面唔需要太多研究, 如果直落沙缸, 25MM應一定夠, 如果下沙缸之前走2個曲, 就用32MM, D喉大細價差不多, 用大D就搞掂.
個泵揚程如果有3M, 你就預佢流量會得番MAXIMUM CAPACITY x 20%至30%, 如果好似HAIVEN咁有成9M, 你預佢有60-80%. 唔洗計得好似我咁複雜


catlee





文章: 2602
來自: 有求必應
45 于 2004-03-11 20:34  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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choinm wrote:
等細佬今晚冲凉用支針筒、短膠喉同長膠喉試吓今日學嘅嘢。睇吓淨針筒去水、接短膠喉去水同接長膠喉去水,大家去水快慢一樣益或有快有慢。


你用幼喉實唔得咁計, 因為佢地所講 唔計的阻力, 會晌幼喉好明顯咁睇出來, 重有表面張力, 不奈爾 公式等等都要計埋, 大喉就唔使.



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