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white dot......

chauym

文章: 14

1 于 2003-09-23 23:55

Hi
I have my tanke set up for two month, using a large bio wheel ext hiltration undergravel filtration and using a external filter, the NO2 was decrease after the first rise up, now all thing seem to settle down...

but Now suddenly a crisis of white dot disease occur, i want to ask is it save to put some over the counter medication from fish shop to the tank? ...

is it will also kill my good bacteria in the wheel ? any one have any exp ?
thank s lot

Stanley Cha FM HKEC

Kenny

文章: 2286
來自: Shatin, N.T.

2 于 2003-09-24 00:10

If the white spot problem is serious, the only way is to apply medicine to cure it. It'll certainly kill some N-bacteria but not all. You need to add a air pump in the period of using drug.

養魚係一個贏贏的遊戲---a Win-Win game. You can win, I can win, all of us can win in the game at the same time. ^^

Breeder

文章: 424

3 于 2003-09-24 00:15

How many fish ? Any coral?
Becareful before add medicine!
Just to give you more information :

White spot can be Marine Velvet or Marine "ICH".

1: Marine Velvet
Caused by Amyloodinium ocellateum parasite.
The adult protozoan attaches by a root like structure to fish fin, gill and skin making a dust like spots on fish. When mature, it will fall off the fish, swell & undergo division, each reproduce up to 250 free swimming parasitic dinospores. These dinospores can SURVIVE ABOUT 7 to 10 DAYS looking for a fish host to attach to and grow to mature state. If they can't find a fish host , they will ALL DIE after around 10 days after they hatch.

2: Marine "ICH"
Cause by Cryptocaryon irritans protozoan parasite.
The adult parasite invade the skin and gills of the host fish, living off ( eat ) the fish tissues. The fish forms a white cyst around each individual protozoan to limit the parasite's harmful attack. This cyst make by the fish give you the white spots that you see. The adult protozoan breaks out and sinks to the bottom of the aqurium and forms a protective capsule around itself. It reproduces by division over 4 to 22 days, each reproduce 100 to 400 infective swarmers. These swarmers are released to swim and try to find a host fish, which the MUST FIND A HOST WITHIN 24 HOUR or else they will DIE!

咁即係話，最小一個月，魚缸冇魚，佢哋就冇晒(死晒)！
如果一個月後，你買魚番來又有白點，咁即係條新魚嘅身上己經有此 parasite ！係你把魚跟 parasite 一齊買咗番來！

銅藥可剎parasite，不過我唔見意亂落因為：
I have use medicine before & had a lot of experiments, tests. Both fresh & sea water tanks has suffer huge lost. And I found that fishes in the main tank does not need to take medicine.
If they are suddenly sick or have parasite problem , this means that you have a problem. Either overfeed, overstock or water condition problem. All fish keeper tends to make these mistake all over the world not only H.K..

Moreover, if one fish is sick I will take it away into QTank & if it die , let it die. I will never risk the other fishes because hoping to save one fish. Many people wanted to save one fish & put medicine into tank & they are not expert, so end up kill the whole tank of fish. Acturally , how many people know exactly how & when to put in what kind of medicine?
Therefore I would suggest not to put medicine.

I am afraid that if "new - hand" & try to put medicine ( copper ) into the main tank & he may put more after a few days if the fish still has ICH & without test kit , the copper level may increase slowly from 0.3 ppm to 0.4.....0.5....0.6. Then, even a 1 feet long Queen Angel die because of the toxic level too high. ( he he ....similar with zidane's case, I wanted to save a bi-colour angel from ICH, end up, I have kill a 1 feet long Queen Angel , 1 blueface Angel, 1 French Angel, 1 copperband butterfly, 6 clownfish and 1 yellow tang in 1987 ). And of course the bi-colour angel who started it had also died.
In many cases, MEDICINE do more HARM than good !

Breeder

文章: 424

4 于 2003-09-24 00:22

More info. real case!
http://www.hksaltfish.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005978

chauym

文章: 14

5 于 2003-09-24 00:44

Thanks kenny and breeder

i read all the information you have written in the previous time...
for my tank i dun have any invertebrate, what i got is only
live rocks,
four tigger fish
two tellow tang
three blue tang( regal tang)
one blue surgeon...
two box and one cowbox.
three small 10 fish .....

i think the origin is come from the blue tang since i bought it for only 5 days....
sign...... two box and one cow box all the tang and surgeon all are infected with white spot,
i'm agree most of the medication will do no good, and is easy to overdose the medication... esp the copper
But what can i do now?
solution
1 supportive treatment .... dun add anything, only give food to them.
2 maintain the copper in a level that will kill the parasite which is in the free stage and buy some overcounter lab test kit for the copper level.....
3 any non copper medication?

thanks for the expert advise

Breeder

文章: 424

6 于 2003-09-24 02:52

Ok! This is the most difficult problem everyone has to face !
I am sorry , you are facing the situtation that no-one dare to face.
I suggest ( I don't like it , but this is what I can think of now ):

Don't use anything with Copper , Acriflavine, Organophosphates, Chloramin, Methylene blue, Trichlorofon.

Try use Formalin or Malachite green. This two is , as far as I know non toxic to invertebrates ( live rock will be ok. ) . Latter ,can get rid of by water changes & can be safe to keep invertebrates.
It's killing effect is not as effective as copper when killing parasite but will kill them . In the same time , apply freshwater dips, because no medicine will kill the ones that stick on fish. Increase temp. to 30 c to increase parasites life cycle.

OR

Feed less , add 3-4 doctor shimps & making sure the water condition is the best. Then do nothing & see which fish is strong enough to fight off the attack. If all the fish died then you will have the doctor shimps left , keep them & feed them for 1 month in order to keeping the bacteria population. After 1 month there should be no more parasites left in tank , then you will be able to add new fish slowly.
Maybe a small Qtank would be a good idea after this bad experience.

Be careful with the box fishes , they has toxic in their body & if they died toxic in their body may kill other fishes.

Since you only setup for two months. If I were you, I will choose the second method.

chauym

文章: 14

7 于 2003-10-05 11:15

after one week
some fish die and the remaining fish become more while spot and have some fin rot
at this stage i decided to add the medicine and i also buy the Cu test
now i have added the waterlife myxazin and cuprazin .... ? do anyonw know whether there is copper inside these two medicine?
thanks a lot

chauym

文章: 14

8 于 2003-10-10 00:12

i have use the Cu treatment for a few day .... Cu level about 0.45ppm
the fish stop to die anymore and the white dot is decreasing.... so i use this time to buy some fish.... because i think as there is some medicine in my tank, the white dot parasite should be killed ,the new fish should not get the white dot...
the new fish seems to tolerate the environment and no more white dot in the new fish ....
However may be due to the Cu already destroyed the nitobacter the NH3 start to rise and the No2 remain no change ... it is like the start of the N cycle.....
so i have to use the change water method to decrease the toxic NH3 level....

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