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作者 Little truth about 兩個賣珊瑚商人既故仔
clowntang





文章: 70
1 于 2003-04-28 10:25  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
iczfirz & Administrator,

I've been away from your site for a while.
For those who don't know me, ICZFIRZ translated an article I wrote back in May 2002 about how to treat ICH with Hyposalinity and Cupramine, can be found here:

http://www.aquarium.org.hk/cgi-bin/ch/topic_show.cgi?id=1010&h=1&bpg=1&age=0

In light of what's been happening in the last 2 weeks, after 2 of my friends informed me (1 in HK, and Mr A in SF), and also being Moderator in 2 other sites,
I'm seeking permission to speak freely. Thanks!

ICZFIRZ, I might need your translation to Chinese again to help me out because I'm not equipped to type Chinese, thanks again!
EdwardChu, I'm here not to start another flame, if it happens, I do apologize in advance.

This is to respond to the Jeffix's story 兩個賣珊瑚商人既故仔 at:

http://www.aquarium.org.hk/cgi-bin/ch/topic_show.cgi?id=5350&h=1&bpg=2&age=0

Any reefers who live in the Bay Area in California (USA) would know about these 2 fishstores, no secret at all.
Because I didn't get pre-approval to use their names or stores, so here I could only use the initials.

subject: 殺人王
store: T.P.
owner: Mr E
city: S.L.
area: about 10,000 square feet of space
display: 2 isles of saltwater fish tanks
                  2 isles of LPS & softies tanks
                  2 SPS tanks – with a sump about 500-700g
                  multiple MHs used, 400w with 20k bulb
price: reasonably pricey, but can be bargained down
comment: Mr E, your store is now probably the most impressive and the best store in the Bay Area! Strictly saltwater specialist.

subject: 一對兄弟商人
store: G.B.A.
owners: 2002-2003 Mr D (former owner), 1 of the 2 brothers ( I can’t confirm there's a 2nd brother)
                 April 2003 - Mr A (my friend) – very hard working, easy to deal with, reef knowledgeable
                 April 2003 - Mr I - very nice guy, easy to deal with, freshwater expert
city: S.L.
area: about 2000 sq ft or more
display: 1 isle of freshwater fish
                 1 isle of saltwater fish
                 1 isle of corals -- in 2002 lighting used was VHO + PowerCompact
                                            -- in early 2003, MH 250w with 10k bulbs, much much better setup
price: almost the lowest in town
comment: store is getting better and better than before, keep up the good business.

Mr D was new to saltwater fishes and coral keeping, but he is 1 of the 2 exclusive distributors of Fiji SPS. As all reefers know, you can't keep SPS using VHO or PC lighting; consequently, most of his SPS shipment died in his tanks (I'm not bad-mouthing you Mr D), but it's a known fact for any reefers who visited the store in 2002.

He soon figured out ordering bigger shipment of SPS, results in lower shipping cost, and so he started selling about 70% (my estimate) to other local fishstores like T.P. and others (There's more than 1 store Mr D does business with). He's selling the rest of SPS in his store at a much lower price.

About a month ago, Mr D sold his store to Mr A and Mr I.
Now Mr D has moved on to do the bigger and better things for himself,
to be a distributor. I've been his customer for as long as he owned the store! That's the conversation Mr D and I had in Feb when I bought a few pieces of SPS from him, and he told me that his store was for sale and he wanted to do bigger things.

The reflection on Mr D (the brother) is totally wrong!
He's not the little victim as described.
Instead, the relationship between Mr D and Mr E has always been supplier & retailer, supplier being Mr D, and retailer being Mr E.

When a supplier, or wholesaler, or distributor sells to a retailer, or a fishstore owner, the supplier doesn't set the price for the retailer, and there's no contract between these 2 parties concerning prices.
Isn't this true in both HK and US?

Mr D could have killed all the SPS in his tanks, but that wasn't his choice, he chose to sell at wholesale prices to other store owners.
On the contrary, now and then, Mr D was and still continues to set the prices,
the supply of SPS because he's the exclusive distributor.
Who's the BOSS here?
Is Mr D a victim here? Was he being tricked ? Price gouging for Mr E?

The reflection on Mr E (殺人王) is also totally wrong!
With 10 years of fish maintenance experience, and the most impressive high tech setup of equipment, and the way the 2 SPS tanks were setup, and the investment ($$$$) he put into the store …. he's selling SPS at a fair price. That's very unfair and unjust and cruel to portray him as a "殺人王 ". He runs a great store and I'm sure those who bought fish or corals from him have nothing but good things to say about him.
I'll be glad to start a satisfaction survey in REEFCENTRAL.com about T.P. and Mr E, I'm pretty sure there're lots of satisfied Bay Area reefers.

Regarding the missing Ricordias in your supplier's display tank, which is Mr A's display tank. I was at the store on Sat (Apr 26) and bought 2 buckets of salt, Mr A and I talked about corals, and one thing led to another we talked about his new shipment of Ricordias at his store.
Mr A said "I think one guy came to buy 80% of Ricordias from this display tank, and he probably cut the Ricordias into 4+ slices and shipped to HK via FedEx overnight.”Did one of you from HK flew to US this week ?

Friends, I've been debating if I should remain silent because this post
can jeopardize my friendship with Mr A (gossiping him), or Mr D (bad mouthing him), and I know Mr E welcomes his image correction.
I feel that my friends in Hong Kong have the right to know the truth, nothing but the whole truth of what happened in US!

Please, before anyone responds to my truth to this parable, either positive or negative, let's give a special privilege to JEFFIX to comment first.
Jeffix, please feel free to correct any areas where I might be wrong.

Thank you all for reading!

ClownTang


clowntang 修改于 2003-04-28 12:01
GBA





文章: 3
2 于 2003-04-28 14:30  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
Hi Clowntang and fellow HK Reefers,

I am "Mr. A" as referred to in Clowntang's post and am the seller of the Florida Ricordeas in the display picture posted on Jeffix's thread.

I was sharing information that were brought to my attention on this board regarding Florida Ricordeas with Clowntang and asked his opinion that if the Ricordeas were cut, what he thought the chances of their survival if shipped to HK?

Here are the known facts:

1. Someone did buy most of my Florida Ricordeas from my display tank.
2. I would estimate an approximate 20% DOA (Dead on Arrival) if shipping within the U.S. via overnight.
3. I cannot confirm if any of the buyers of my Florida Ricordeas are shipping them or not as I am a seller so anyone is welcome to come in and buy them.
4. Florida Ricordeas are unlike regular mushrooms. They can be proprogated by cutting but they do not heal as quickly and easily.

I am the owner of Great Bay Aquarium and just wanted to make a few points clear concerning Florida Ricordeas, especially the ones of interest in my display tank. I am a collector of Ricordeas myself, both the Florida and Pacific Yuma varieties, in rare and exotic color morphs.

My store currently has approximately 500+ polyps in stock. The rock colonies range from 3-20 polyps each.

I am very happy for the opportunity to meet more reefers and want everyone to feel free to email me if with any questions regarding Ricordeas or reef aquariums in general.

I sincerely appreciate the comments and compliments from Clowntang.

Best Regards.
GBA


GBA 修改于 2003-04-28 14:59
Jeffix
555
555



文章: 221
來自: 美國
3 于 2003-04-28 17:08  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
Hi Clowntang:

關於Mr.A,I,D既事我信相Mr.A已經答左你,而且佢地既關係亦唔關我事,我係唔會回應既.我只回應TP同GB之間既故事.我明白你想講人地投資咁多應該收貴D,但係你應該知GB依家係做retail,即係話係人行入去都賣咁多錢,咁我又好想問你:如果你行入去GB問一舊Acropora Formosa全藍色佢話你知30-50蚊,但你去到TP問同樣既貨,佢就答你一支frags(截支)都要賣95蚊,同一樣貨相差咁大,你會唔會比多好多錢買同一件貨?據我所知你自己都去幫襯GB買好多sps,你講到TP咁好咁你又唔比多幾十至幾百蚊去TP度買?我唔係想寸你,只係以事論事,我都幫襯過TP,就係上面藍色Acropora Formosa件事,我2間鋪都係第一次行入去問同一件貨,答案就係咁,你話如果GB賣比我wholesale price就話姐,依家唔係喎,人人一樣,你會唔會無lala洗多咁多錢去TP度買GB既同一件貨呢?仲有,你又知唔知點解D人咁睇好TP呢?好簡單,因為GB以前做wholesale所以除左鋪頭D買手根本冇人知GB既存在.GB在未轉retail之前TP已經出左名因為Mr.E晨早7點去排隊所以佢可以first pick揀晒D靚野返去,但依家GB己經係retail啦喎,佢依然係晨早去排隊同D街客搶sps...大部份街客根本唔知佢去買貨因為冇人會7點排隊等GB11點開門.就算我係街客,我明知佢咁做但又要玩靚sps都要同佢買架,鬼叫我唔早過佢排隊喎~仲有你話好多人支持佢,我個post都話果D係佢個spsclub既人啦,撐佢係好應該既(兼且唔知D貨既來源同真正retail價)你冇睇到有個叫"乜乜"Oki既企出來講出可以查出Mr.E D珊瑚來源方法咩?據Mr.A講佢有D客都過左來GB買sps仲好開心因為價錢合理添...咁你估,有冇人如果知道有GB存在仲甘心去TP買珊瑚呢?不過有一樣野TP係好既(憑良心講):佢有D魚可能成個Bay Area都冇既而且價錢好合理,我前幾日都去Mr.E度買完魚添,係呢樣野TP值得我欣賞既.唔知你對我既解釋滿唔漢意呢?我都知你可能係代大家或朋友問所以我而好樂意回答你,有機會在GB撞到咪一齊吹下水啦.

此致

Jeffix


iczfirz
"challenge"
"challenge"



文章: 14186
來自: 我回來了
4 于 2003-04-28 17:36  觀看該用戶的個人資料  主頁: http://www.aquarium.org.hk  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
小丑吊.. 你篇野好長.. 我今晚同明朝先得閒同你搞..
clowntang. Coz your post is real long, please allow me some times to complete it, hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

借用魚友一句: Sometimes being correct is not always black and white.
Borrow from a friend: Sometimes being correct is not always black and white.

其實大家都係觀點與角度唔同.. 所以諗既野都唔同.. 冇話邊個岩成係錯既.. 只係分享一下個人經驗同觀點.. 呢個討論好傾得好和氣.. 大家都應活學一番..
In fact, different point of views will ends with different conclusions. So it's hard to determine who is right and who is wrong. We are here to share. I would like to say this post is really good and polite and everyone should follow.


iczfirz 修改于 2003-04-28 18:20

問題或承受過 不相信拋下過 最後決定一雙肩膊別太肩膊
三十一畫:此數大吉,名利雙收,漸進向上,大業成就。(吉)
iczfirz
"challenge"
"challenge"



文章: 14186
來自: 我回來了
5 于 2003-04-28 23:50  觀看該用戶的個人資料  主頁: http://www.aquarium.org.hk  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
小丑吊.. 你的譯本..
------------------------------------------------------------------------

本人己有一段時間沒有上來這個網站了.
那些不知道我是誰的人, ICZFIRZ 層在2002年五月翻譯本人一文, 是關於Hyposalinity並加入Cupramine的白點醫治, 大家可以在這裡找到:

http://www.aquarium.org.hk/cgi-bin/ch/topic_show.cgi?id=1010&h=1&bpg=1&age=0

由本人的兩個朋友(一個在香港, 及一個在三藩市的A生)得知過去兩星期所發生過的事.. 以及本人是身為二個網站的版主.. 本人欲想在這裡有一個發言權.

ICZFIRZ, 本人希望閣下能翻譯本文為中文, 因為本人的中文不大好呢, 再次多謝你!
EdwardChu, 本人在此不是想發起另一次火頭, 如果有, 我先說過不是.

本文是回應jeffix的 兩個賣珊瑚商人既故仔 :

http://www.aquarium.org.hk/cgi-bin/ch/topic_show.cgi?id=5350&h=1&bpg=2&age=0

所有住在美加小灣的珊瑚朋友都知道言兩間店, 並不是什麼秘密.
因為本人不層問準這兩店的名稱,所以本人會用店名頭的字母.

標題: 殺人王
店名: T.P.
店主: E生
城市: S.L.
店大小:大約一萬平方尺
陳列箱: 兩個獨立的海水魚缸
                兩個獨立LPS及軟体缸
                兩個SPS缸--底缸為500-700加倫,
                大量的大陽燈 400火 20000k
價錢:適當價錢, 但亦可以講價
意見:E生, 你的店子可說是小灣中最出色及最佳的! 嚴格地說是海水專家.

標題: 一對兄弟商人
店名:G.B.A.
店主: 2002-2003 D生 (前店主), 兩兄弟其中一個(本人不能肯定是否有另一個兄弟)
          2003四月- A生(本人的朋友) -- 排常勤力, 平易近人, 有珊瑚經驗
          2003四月- I生-很好人, 平易近人, 淡水魚專家
城市:S.L.
地方: 大約有二千平方尺以上
陳列箱:一個獨立淡水魚缸
             一個獨立海水魚缸
             一個獨立珊瑚缸 -- 2002年間使用VHO+PowerCompact照明
                                          --2003年早期使用250火10000k大陽燈, 好好多的設傋
價錢:差不多是全城最平
意見:店越來越做得好, 有好的生意

D生原本是飼養海水魚及珊瑚的新手, 但佢是唯一兩個的菲濟SPS中的其中一個批發商. 正如所有珊瑚飼養人仕都清楚, VHO 或PC照明是不能飼養SPS的, 所以怹大部份的SPS貨品都死在他的缸中(本人不是中傷D生), 但所有在2002年到過他店的飼養珊瑚人事都知到這個事實.

D生很快便想到引入大量的SPS會另價錢降低, 所以他開始轉售七成(本人估計)的SPS給另一間當地魚店如T.P. 及其它(D生是與不只一間魚店有生意往來). 他自己就用更低價售出他剩下來的SPS.

(訓了.. 明天再黎過tongue)



問題或承受過 不相信拋下過 最後決定一雙肩膊別太肩膊
三十一畫:此數大吉,名利雙收,漸進向上,大業成就。(吉)
咸水Kok
乾爽滴流新人
乾爽滴流新人



文章: 234
來自: Where I lay my head, is home.
6 于 2003-04-29 06:11  觀看該用戶的個人資料  ICQ : 4479159  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
Maybe I shouldnt' say anything coz I'm still a rookie, but, hey, what the heck. Freedom of speech, here I goes!

I read Jeffix story about the relationship between TP and GBA when he posted it freshly. Isn't that just a typical minimize scene of all free trading relationship? Why would some people felt uncomfortable after reading this 'personal feeling story'?

Jeffix thought TP is a ripped off, someone think it's a fair deal. That's it, end of story. To me Jeffix is just a typical reefer, nothing more. Sharing what he knows and feel is not a crime. Somehow, well maybe I'm not smart enough to sense what's really going on, I felt that Jeffix is the real victim. Neither TP nor GBA were being attacked.

If the same situation happens in Hong Kong, I'd personally check out both retailers and keep my own thought to myself. There are always cheap fast food and decent restaurant, and if I know they can fix me the same meal why not go cheap? On the other hand if you felt like enjoying a nice eating enviroment, that's your call.

Mr. A suspect a 20% death chance of that mysterious Ricordeas, we'll see

Sorry, end of my BS, KK don't bother translating my post, just trash talking : )


clowntang





文章: 70
7 于 2003-04-29 10:23  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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iczfirz,

I've to say "thanks a MILLION" to you for translating.
Actually after I wrote and posted this, I really didn't want this to be translated, but thanks so so much anyway. Sorry to make you translate a long list of BS!

GBA,

Thanks for your reply! You and I had a long talk last night about this Ricordia incident, and I've better understanding of the situation now. Like I told you whoever bought these Ricordias and sold to HK .... buyer beware! You're only the seller, and you're not ultimately responsible for the end result.

Jeffix,

I guess the dust is settled, why stir it up again.
I hope I wasn't too hard on you, sorry!

I thought I wanted to tell the truth about your story, please don't be offended.
I disagreed with the story you wrote earlier, but I agree with you now. You and I are consumers, I definitely won't buy from a FS whose price is twice as high as the other FS with the same identical quality.

For any SPS shipment, I never arrived at GBA in time to pick some top notch ones, but you didn't know that Mr D opened store at 7am just for the other store owners, meanwhile this is for wholesale only. Even if you got there at 7am I'm not sure you could go in and pick anything. When you and I walked into the store, of course the best ones were already gone.

By the same token, I bought an adult Emperor (6") for $48 from this 1 store (close to the old Navy Station), why would I buy from the other store (same town) when the price is $95? Sorry I ain't that stupid and I don't have extra cash to burn. We're absolutely on the same boat regarding this issue.

咸水Kok ,

Point well taken.
We, with the money to spend, should be the ultimate boss, because it's our decision to buy here or elsewhere, to eat here or somewhere else. The important thing is to feel happy when we spend the money wisely.

...... please don't bother to translate anything at all.
..... case is closed!
Don't worry ..... be Happy!!!!


魚友





文章: 6
8 于 2003-04-29 12:24  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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請問這些菇菇究竟是何來架 ?? 因為本人見到好(青見) 所以好想買一至兩舊, 但係某網上見到這些菇一時又話有得買, 一時又話無得買, 今日又見到有得買, 都唔知邊樣先至岩 ?? 請各位指示小弟, 因怕是上面魚友講的由一舊變幾舊分拆出來, 如果係咁 d 質素又有何保証 ??


魚友





文章: 6
9 于 2003-04-29 12:24  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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本人之前係某網見到話有得訂, 心想可以有得玩啦, 但之後又話無, 今日又見到話有, 但只係俾之前落左訂的魚友先至有得訂, 對其他訂唔到的魚友就話對不起, 之後想訂既魚友就無, 咁唔知第時係魚街會唔會有得買呢, 如果有又會唔會係這一批貨所變出來的呢 ??


魚友





文章: 6
10 于 2003-04-29 12:25  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
只适用于 IE :-)
如果照上面魚友所講用速遞運到香港又何需要這麼耐先至有得買 ?? 係唔係真係要等菇菇生多幾舊先夠數量分配給魚友們及先至有得買 ?? 好著數喎, 一舊變幾舊, 哇 ~ 如果係咁做, 菇菇質素有無保証架 ???


魚友





文章: 6
11 于 2003-04-29 12:25  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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如果無真係好大鑊, 都唔知第時好唔好信某些可以訂野既網頁, 唔通真係要有拉 lung 先至可以買到這些稀有生物 ?? 對魚友係一個損失 !! 如果照睇上面魚友的說法得一個進口商, 咁這次訂回香港的菇菇是由那一處出口回港呢 ?? 有無信心保証架 ? 會唔會對其他魚友做成影響呢 ???

多野問及擔心的魚友上


GBA





文章: 3
12 于 2003-04-29 14:16  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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咸水Kok ,

I stated that from my shipping experience WITHIN THE U.S., there is an approximate 20% death on arrival.

At no point did i "suspect" or assume a 20% on the death of the "mysterious" ricordeas. I would not even try to estimate the death rate because I have never shipped internationally before.

Please do let me know how well they fare when being shipped as I would like to know the result.

Clowntang and I both agreed from our experiences with Ricordeas that shipping them to HK can have a higher than 20% death on arrival rate, but again, i stress that we were only estimating and merely stating our opinion.

The only fact that we used to base our opinion on is from our experience in shipping it within the U.S., nothing else.

Regards,
GBA


Jeffix
555
555



文章: 221
來自: 美國
13 于 2003-04-29 14:19  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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clowntang:

你係咪諗得太多呢?我話佢去晨咁早去排頭位姐,冇話我地街客可以早過11點入去.只係一個比喻,如果有乜得罪既,萬分致歉


iczfirz
"challenge"
"challenge"



文章: 14186
來自: 我回來了
14 于 2003-04-29 14:36  觀看該用戶的個人資料  主頁: http://www.aquarium.org.hk  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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個個既意見都係有各自各既觀點.. 正如有人鐘意唔買野都行下魚店.. 有人就一定有魚番果日先會出魚街.. 各有各買賣既喜好.. 不用太著緊啦..

來來來.. 不如大家講下點去選購Ricordia啦.. 因為聽落好似好鬼易死咁.. 又如小丑吊所講.. 有批貨不久前係美國俾人要左.. 本地運送DOA都兩成. 批貨仲係一開四五六七八, 雖係超速運過黎香港.. 但亦怕到時未死得買左番屋企先死.. 咁香港既魚友應要如何小心選購呢..smile



問題或承受過 不相信拋下過 最後決定一雙肩膊別太肩膊
三十一畫:此數大吉,名利雙收,漸進向上,大業成就。(吉)
sammy仔





文章: 797
15 于 2003-04-29 14:38  觀看該用戶的個人資料  搜尋這個用戶發表的所有文章  把文章內容复制到剪貼板。
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iczfirz wrote:
個個既意見都係有各自各既觀點.. 正如有人鐘意唔買野都行下魚店.. 有人就一定有魚番果日先會出魚街.. 各有各買賣既喜好.. 不用太著緊啦..

來來來.. 不如大家講下點去選購Ricordia啦.. 因為聽落好似好鬼易死咁.. 又如小丑吊所講.. 有批貨不久前係美國俾人要左.. 本地運送DOA都兩成. 批貨仲係一開四五六七八, 雖係超速運過黎香港.. 但亦怕到時未死得買左番屋企先死.. 咁香港既魚友應要如何小心選購呢..smile


Ricordia<==係物黎嫁?



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